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AT-43 Q's, FAQ's & Rules
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| Balrog | Date: Saturday, 06-Aug-2011, 23:33:40 | Message # 1 |
Aun Va III
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Hey Guys ... Can I get a bit of clarity on the AT-43 spotting rule? Basically, it says in the rules that spotting and line of sight is base side to base side ...
... is that what we play? Also ... how do you work out line of sight from a transport with no base?? ... Any advice appreciated ... Lt Valts
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| zellak | Date: Sunday, 07-Aug-2011, 00:10:15 | Message # 2 |
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I have been discussing this with Gerry, after last weeks game.
We thought it might be clearer if we measured LOS head to head. ?
And AFV from the commanders viewport/sensor/turret ?
.........................Rather than edge of base.
There were too many iffy calls during that last game for my liking...we need some hard and fast rules.
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DEMON : " When next we meet, i shall tear you limb from limb...there will be no escape. "
Hero: " You bring balloon animals and i'll hire a clown..... we can make it a regular party. "
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| Balrog | Date: Sunday, 07-Aug-2011, 06:35:38 | Message # 3 |
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Aun Va III
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I think we should generalise the line of sight to be the centre of the model, regardless of the type, i.e. inf, strider or afv. The problem comes from working angles in the height of the model, as some are a lot taller than others, and will have a better los, but also be easier to see! ... Sooo, too keep things simple, and my choice, a top to top los? Or maybe the bottom to top?? ... or even a mid to mid point??? ... one for a vote me thinks!? Ideally, we should get some los sticks to lie on each center point of the model for quick checks ... tape measures are waaaayyy too flexible!
From the rulebook:
"Vehicles are often equipped with several weapons manned by independent crew who do not all have the
same field of view. The field of view of a vehicle’s weapon is defined in the machine’s description."
... which usually means the afv's have a 180º shooting angle to the front of them ...
... therefor a 180º line of sight to the front of the model. Once again, this allows the center of the model to be used as a point of ref for line of sight, but once again the height comes into play. Some afv's have flight capabilities, so we need to define when their flying or on the ground. Obviously flying allows them a better los, so do we say that, unless otherwise stated, the afv in hover mode is one crate high? Using crates as a ref is easy as we can stack them then place the afv on them for a los check? Once again, maybe a vote? ... Lt Valts
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| zellak | Date: Sunday, 07-Aug-2011, 19:21:33 | Message # 4 |
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Generalissimo
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Top to top ...is pretty much what i meant...i think ?
LOS sticks sound good to.
Most AFV can shoot all round , only the ones with diagrams are not...usually transports or type 3 AFV.
Che also mentioned today that he felt it counter-intuitive that an AFV could shoot with a weapon mounted on its left shoulder when it was leaning out from a corner with only its right hand side (weapon) visible to the enemy. (phew>>>>> that wasn't easy !)
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DEMON : " When next we meet, i shall tear you limb from limb...there will be no escape. "
Hero: " You bring balloon animals and i'll hire a clown..... we can make it a regular party. "
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| Che | Date: Sunday, 07-Aug-2011, 19:27:15 | Message # 5 |
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Quote (zellak) Che also mentioned today that he felt it counter-intuitive that an AFV could shoot with a weapon mounted on its left shoulder when it was leaning out from a corner with only its right hand side (weapon) visible to the enemy. (phew>>>>> that wasn't easy !)
It may not have been easy but it was succinctly put. You're a credit to the regiment , sir! 
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Wargamers like to paint their privates!!
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| Balrog | Date: Monday, 08-Aug-2011, 07:27:40 | Message # 6 |
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Aun Va III
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Quote (zellak) Che also mentioned today that he felt it counter-intuitive that an AFV could shoot with a weapon mounted on its left shoulder when it was leaning out from a corner with only its right hand side (weapon) visible to the enemy. (phew>>>>> that wasn't easy !)
 That certainly is a point ... but I thought we where looking to generalize the line of sight/shooting capabilities of all models, especially as some players are now using alternative models for afv's, and some factions don't even have a model to represent their afv's as none have been manufactured!? In the picture below ...
... we can see that the Therian is 50/50 to the container, so he doesn't get to shoot his left hand side weapon? IMHO ... we need to generalize regardless of the model design, ie center to center. If you have LoS, then u can shoot whatever the model looks like ... lets keep it universally simple comrades! ... Lt Valts
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| Balrog | Date: Monday, 08-Aug-2011, 12:00:50 | Message # 7 |
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Aun Va III
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Cover Under The Tarmac Spaceport?
Hi Guys ... another Q for you ... do u get automatic cover from artillery strikes when underneath the Spaceport? I would say so, but I would be biased as I'm defending it now! ... Lt Valts
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| zellak | Date: Monday, 08-Aug-2011, 13:05:44 | Message # 8 |
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i would say yes, as indirect shots that pass through a wall are ignored.
Says it somewhere under indirect fire ???Added (08-Aug-2011, 1:05 PM)
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Also...about the firing round corners.....it was only AFV he was talking about, not infantry.
And how would Firetoads shoot over low walls.
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DEMON : " When next we meet, i shall tear you limb from limb...there will be no escape. "
Hero: " You bring balloon animals and i'll hire a clown..... we can make it a regular party. "
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| Balrog | Date: Monday, 08-Aug-2011, 15:30:28 | Message # 9 |
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Aun Va III
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Quote (zellak) Also...about the firing round corners.....it was only AFV he was talking about, not infantry.
And how would Firetoads shoot over low walls.
That's the point I'm trying to make ... first we start with different opinions on types of afv's, then it's striders, then inf ... generalisation is what we should use across the board for all factions for all models, therefor a middle point of the model/base should be used?
Some models are bigger than their bases, so we might have to use middle of bases first or just stick with middle of model for everything?? ... simple, easy rules ...  ... not if I get my hands on them! ...  ... Lt Valts
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| Banksi | Date: Monday, 08-Aug-2011, 18:53:05 | Message # 10 |
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Quote (Balrog) how do you work out line of sight from a transport with no base?? ... Any advice appreciated ... Lt Valts
Dont know if anyone has said this but all Rackham transports flying transports have bases
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Of course I know your name, it's your face I can't remember - Parahandy
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| Balrog | Date: Monday, 08-Aug-2011, 20:47:40 | Message # 11 |
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Aun Va III
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Quote (Banksi) Dont know if anyone has said this but all Rackham transports flying transports have bases
That's true, but we're now using other models to represent flying afv's, i.e. see Z's flying airship ... it's huge! And most likely land based afv's made by other manufacturers will crop up over a period of time with the lack of models from Rackham.
I personally would like one rule to suit all models ... afv's, striders, inf ... but that might not work well with larger afv's. Maybe a center point to the front for los and shooting?
Idea's people? What have we been playing anyway for los & range ... edge to edge ... front to front? ... front to mid?? ... mid to mid???
Lt Valts
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| Banksi | Date: Monday, 08-Aug-2011, 22:05:29 | Message # 12 |
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Since only certain factions afv's can count cover the los issue really is should be quite simple:
1. I don't think that an AFV can count cover as the rules only mention fighters, they can only count cover if there faction allows it, normally only with take cover orders.
2. If an AFV is shooting from behind an obstacle that is blocking LOS of one of it's weapons, that weapon can only shoot if it has the indirect fire ability or can fire if the weapon it'self is above the obstacle and has a clear LOS.
3. If less than 50% if the AFV is visible it cant be fired on and cannot fire as the pilot who is normally in the middle cant see anyone.
Does that sort out the issues?
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Message edited by Banksi - Monday, 08-Aug-2011, 22:07:30
Of course I know your name, it's your face I can't remember - Parahandy
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| zellak | Date: Monday, 08-Aug-2011, 22:28:51 | Message # 13 |
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1) Both infantry and AFV are collectively termed fighters .
2) An interesting idea...but it means Firetoads cannot shoot over low walls !
3) 50% of the vehicle has to be behind cover to get the cover save (5+). Up to now we have been generous to AFV when its the target.
The centre of the AFV can see the target, the AFV gets a cover save and can shoot with all weapons.
Do we really want to change that ?
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DEMON : " When next we meet, i shall tear you limb from limb...there will be no escape. "
Hero: " You bring balloon animals and i'll hire a clown..... we can make it a regular party. "
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| Banksi | Date: Monday, 08-Aug-2011, 22:37:30 | Message # 14 |
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Quote (zellak) 2) An interesting idea...but it means Firetoads cannot shoot over low walls !
Ever thought that tanks werent designed to hide in this game?
Quote (zellak) The centre of the AFV can see the target, the AFV gets a cover save and can shoot with all weapons.
Do we really want to change that ?
I'm sure that I've played it if one of my weapons is hidden from LOS it cant be fired
It certainly makes it more tactical in the placing of AFV units if all weapons have to have LOS
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Of course I know your name, it's your face I can't remember - Parahandy
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| zellak | Date: Monday, 08-Aug-2011, 23:42:44 | Message # 15 |
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Quote (Banksi) Ever thought that tanks werent designed to hide in this game?
Nope ...never crossed my mind.
Quote (Banksi) It certainly makes it more tactical in the placing of AFV units if all weapons have to have LOS
Although that is true....i'm not sure that it would improve the gameplay. 
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DEMON : " When next we meet, i shall tear you limb from limb...there will be no escape. "
Hero: " You bring balloon animals and i'll hire a clown..... we can make it a regular party. "
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| Balrog | Date: Tuesday, 09-Aug-2011, 21:50:23 | Message # 16 |
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Aun Va III
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Quote (zellak) The centre of the AFV can see the target, the AFV gets a cover save and can shoot with all weapons.
Do we really want to change that ?
Quote (zellak) Quote (Banksi)
It certainly makes it more tactical in the placing of AFV units if all weapons have to have LOS
Although that is true....i'm not sure that it would improve the gameplay.
I'd rather keep to the general rule being played just now, that (middle of the model) los from any afv, strider or inf give's it the right to shoot, as well as be shot at. Not to bothered about an exact 50% cover for afv, striders or inf as long as they've some cover they should get the bonus ... it's a general rule of thumb and I like it.
I'm all for nice & simple, and fairness to all factions regardless of model designs! ... Lt Valts
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| Balrog | Date: Thursday, 11-Aug-2011, 14:31:02 | Message # 17 |
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Aun Va III
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Hey Guys ... New Q for the AT-43 Buffs! ... Minefields
I noticed IanW used one last time, but if someone has an Anti-G ability, can they jump/fly over them?
Any pointers? ... Lt Valts
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| zellak | Date: Thursday, 11-Aug-2011, 15:06:20 | Message # 18 |
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Generalissimo
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Operation Frostbite rules page 11.
It looks to me that anyone who crosses the card activates it.
It does not matter if they are walking or "jumping", the card says travels...over the card
The effects take place after movement and overwatch fire.
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DEMON : " When next we meet, i shall tear you limb from limb...there will be no escape. "
Hero: " You bring balloon animals and i'll hire a clown..... we can make it a regular party. "
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| Balrog | Date: Thursday, 11-Aug-2011, 15:19:21 | Message # 19 |
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Aun Va III
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Oh, yeah ... so it does!
Must have read that section a dozen times without picking up on
the "travels even partially over the card during his
movement" .. so any AFV with Anti-G or G-Pack trooper
will trigger the mines ... sorted!
Lt Valts
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| Che | Date: Thursday, 11-Aug-2011, 19:44:33 | Message # 20 |
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Quote (Balrog) Some models are bigger than their bases, so we might have to use middle of bases first or just stick with middle of model
Aren't they the same point? I'm no engineer but if you have a circle of, say, 6" diameter with a model on it that sticks out another 1" beyond isn't the middle the same point? so middle of model sounds OK. Added (11-Aug-2011, 7:44 PM)
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However, some models don't sit on the base symetrically. My brain is coming out through my ears. Oh for the certainty of Marxist economics 
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Wargamers like to paint their privates!!
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