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planning Gang Wars II
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| zellak | Date: Sunday, 23-Dec-2012, 22:24:07 | Message # 1 |
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So Che has won GangWars campaign I.
And we are looking to start a new campaign.
So far we have 5 players and need another 5.
Che, me, Rory, Ross and Aiden are in.
10 gangsters each, no hired guns.
1 turf each.
Character creation has been redone in order to eliminate the book-keeping.
Punks roll 1d10 for starting trait, half bonus and half of them are penalties.
Prolly be the odd game every couple of months......
But a system to be devised where two people could play instead of the usual multi-player games.
....................had a thought............what if the blank shiny counters represent bribes (as they did in todays game)
and they can be used to poach punks from other gangs, but NOT from gangs which took part in that game ?
Would that be enough for the fighting gangs to replace losses ?
Would it mean that gangs that fight a lot of battles would get stronger ?
Might be one of those situations where only playtesting will uncover the truth.
For instance if gang A loses 5 fighters, and gang B loses 5 fighters.
You roll for the ten dead fighters to respawn back to 10 turfs.....then both gangs should get 1 back each.
4 bribes were discovered, 2 each, then both gangs would increase to 8 fighters each.
Any thoughts ?
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Message edited by zellak - Sunday, 23-Dec-2012, 22:45:04
DEMON : " When next we meet, i shall tear you limb from limb...there will be no escape. "
Hero: " You bring balloon animals and i'll hire a clown..... we can make it a regular party. "
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| RMcN | Date: Sunday, 23-Dec-2012, 23:22:24 | Message # 2 |
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As I said today with 10 gangs if they all fight each dead ganger is returned as a new recruit and has a 1 in 10 chance to join any gang.
The gangs name and number matching up with a territory number from 1 to 10.
I would suggest New Recruits stats are rolled up then distributed to the gangs.
If only 2 gangs fight then the dead to reborn go to a 1 in 20 chance to join a gang who did not fight.
So keep 1-10 the same, except the winner gets 11 - 18, lose gets 19,20 on a D20 as well to gain a new recruit.
If a draw then one player gets 11 - 15, the other 16 - 20.
How about for the Bribes the players get to pick from the new recruits instead of randomly rolling.
If they don't like the recruits they must trade 2 bribe cards to roll up a new punk!!
I am not sure about bribing from other gangs - that could be a bit iffy (do you limit it to punks only, or traitors?)
Being teritorial they are unlikely to jump easily from one to another - hence traitor trait.
Do think you need to consider a lower and upper limit on gang size doing the fighting.
Can a gang of 3 or less hold a turf?
If a gang gets more than 16 gangers and only 1 turf - do they start infighting to assert a new boss?!!
Do think the games need to be scenarios with objectives - either roll at start as Red poppy white feather, or card system like risk and the 40K orders/ objectives Derek came up with. Forces player to do something with the gang.
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| zellak | Date: Wednesday, 26-Dec-2012, 12:57:46 | Message # 3 |
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(RMcN) How about for the Bribes the players get to pick from the new recruits instead of randomly rolling.
If they don't like the recruits they must trade 2 bribe cards to roll up a new punk!!
I am not sure about bribing from other gangs - that could be a bit iffy (do you limit it to punks only, or traitors?)
Being teritorial they are unlikely to jump easily from one to another - hence traitor trait.
I agree that the whole idea of bribing punks from one gang to join another gang is not realistic.
It was a means to increase a gang size by good play...ie gaining shiny counters and recruiting fighters from other gangs.
So perhaps it would be better, as suggested, to get first pick of the new recruits and then the rest spawning to random Turfs.
Nice idea. 
(RMcN) If a gang gets more than 16 gangers and only 1 turf - do they start infighting to assert a new boss?!!
We still need a leadership stat to limit the number of gangers on the table.
i would suggest we roll 3d4 (charisma) for each fighter, the highest rank with the highest Charisma is leader, and that being the limit to the number of fighters he/ she can bring to the table.
Added (26-Dec-2012, 12:57 PM)
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The roll for initiative and activate gangs round the table is not a great system. 
Why dont we make up a counter for each fighter and pull them from a cup.....that would be much more random.
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Message edited by zellak - Wednesday, 26-Dec-2012, 12:58:46
DEMON : " When next we meet, i shall tear you limb from limb...there will be no escape. "
Hero: " You bring balloon animals and i'll hire a clown..... we can make it a regular party. "
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| RMcN | Date: Wednesday, 26-Dec-2012, 15:16:10 | Message # 4 |
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(zellak)
The roll for initiative and activate gangs round the table is not a great system.
As we did the roll and activate 2 gangers at a time on Sunday that did work okay.
If you go to counters to activate - why not use the gangers stat cards like a fist full of dice Wild West game.
Just everybody gets to go with their gangers each turn, just not in an order they can control.
Currently looking at the Red Poppy White Feather scenario creation to add extra twist.
I will add when I'm done.
Here is the file, with terrain setup ideas:
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Message edited by RMcN - Wednesday, 26-Dec-2012, 18:11:43
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| zellak | Date: Thursday, 27-Dec-2012, 12:36:41 | Message # 5 |
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(RMcN) why not use the gangers stat cards like a fist full of dice Wild West game.
Cause we need the cards for the stats, it would be to much to memorise all the gangs stats.Added (27-Dec-2012, 12:36 PM)
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(RMcN) Attachments: SciFi_Random_sc.doc(38Kb)
Wow....you have been busy !!!
Dont you know its Xmas. 
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DEMON : " When next we meet, i shall tear you limb from limb...there will be no escape. "
Hero: " You bring balloon animals and i'll hire a clown..... we can make it a regular party. "
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| RMcN | Date: Thursday, 27-Dec-2012, 14:18:02 | Message # 6 |
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(zellak)
Cause we need the cards for the stats, it would be to much to memorise all the gangs stats.
But as the card turned over it would be passed to the player - they would then have the stats!!
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| zellak | Date: Thursday, 27-Dec-2012, 17:18:06 | Message # 7 |
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What if a fighter is a target and you dont know what rank he /she is ?
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DEMON : " When next we meet, i shall tear you limb from limb...there will be no escape. "
Hero: " You bring balloon animals and i'll hire a clown..... we can make it a regular party. "
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| Che | Date: Thursday, 27-Dec-2012, 17:43:37 | Message # 8 |
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(zellak) Why dont we make up a counter for each fighter and pull them from a cup.....that would be much more random.
I agree. It's like rolling a D20 but less hassle. A bit like Circus Maximus
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Wargamers like to paint their privates!!
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| zellak | Date: Thursday, 27-Dec-2012, 17:46:44 | Message # 9 |
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Anybody got blank counters....( or even ones with nothing on the back of them ) ......they dont use ?
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DEMON : " When next we meet, i shall tear you limb from limb...there will be no escape. "
Hero: " You bring balloon animals and i'll hire a clown..... we can make it a regular party. "
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| Che | Date: Thursday, 27-Dec-2012, 17:49:47 | Message # 10 |
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(RMcN) Do think the games need to be scenarios with objectives
A lot of the time, not that I've had any experience, gangs fight for the hell of it.Added (27-Dec-2012, 5:49 PM)
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(zellak) Anybody got blank counters....( or even ones with nothing on the back of them ) ......they dont use ?
I've got loads of counters from the boardgames I've collected over the years. I'm sure I could spare a few 
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Wargamers like to paint their privates!!
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| zellak | Date: Thursday, 27-Dec-2012, 17:55:04 | Message # 11 |
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(Che) I'm sure I could spare a few
Good stuff Che.
I liked your Groucho Marx quote so much i got one of my own. 
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DEMON : " When next we meet, i shall tear you limb from limb...there will be no escape. "
Hero: " You bring balloon animals and i'll hire a clown..... we can make it a regular party. "
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| Morgoth | Date: Sunday, 30-Dec-2012, 20:20:24 | Message # 12 |
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Hi Guys ... I'd be happy to join in this years Gang Wars.
Another idea? ... Roll a d20 each round to activate a single gangster until you run out of bad-asses. Have the cards in two rows in front of you to show who's been played and who u have left to field. I'd be happy to help create templates and/or cards for the game.
Gangs sizes could be anything off the table, but using "Charisma" (or "Leadership") would be ideal to control how many you field in a game. The problem here is if a players has a small number of gangsters, say 3, and his opposite has a pool of 16, then the chance to be outnumbered 2-1 or 3-1 is dodgy. There's got to be a cap of some kind? Say one player fields those 3 warriors, then all opposing players can only have 1 or 2 max more?
Objectives/brides would be a good idea to mix the gameplay up. How else would u work out who won the sector? Then use them to increase your gang size. Roll new characters and use the brides to buy them, within a bidding pool? Say a new gangster has a rocket launcher ... most players will want him, so all bid to buy him ... 1 bride, 2, 3, 4 ... 7 bride pieces to the man in the red suit! Gives a sense of value to the new gang member?
Just some thoughts as I recover from the plague! ... Walts
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"The thing's hollow .. it goes on forever .. and .. oh my God! ... it's full of stars!"
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| zellak | Date: Monday, 31-Dec-2012, 00:49:37 | Message # 13 |
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All the gangs will start with 10 fighters, as they get killed they will respawn back to one of the Turfs (roll 1d10)
But if any of the players acquire a shiny bribe counter then they get first choice of a new fighter for each counter.
If we roll 3d4 for charisma then that will give most gangs around 7 or 8 fighters plus the leader. (3d3+1 might be better ???/ maybe not.  )
Gang Wars 1 has been criticized, as having very little chance to customise your gang.
Thats something easily fixed.
.................... Its a matter of just how much control players should get....they are street gangs, not armies. 
Wargamers will always attempt to maximise their control in any situation. 
Old Adage : "Wargames Umpires should be mutually hostile to all players."Added (31-Dec-2012, 0:47 AM)
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(Morgoth) How else would u work out who won the sector?
Normally one gang(s) bug out and the gang still on the table is the winner.
Not pretty, but it works.  Added (31-Dec-2012, 0:49 AM)
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I will look up all the stuff we worked out last Sunday, and post it on here tomorrow.
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DEMON : " When next we meet, i shall tear you limb from limb...there will be no escape. "
Hero: " You bring balloon animals and i'll hire a clown..... we can make it a regular party. "
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| Morgoth | Date: Monday, 31-Dec-2012, 13:01:12 | Message # 14 |
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(zellak) Normally one gang(s) bug out and the gang still on the table is the winner.
But what if there's four gangs on the table at the start of the game and four left at the end of the day? Objectives/brides would be the main winner, but if a draw then a simple die roll?
I'm a terrible one for thinking "what if" for the worst case scenario's!
(zellak) All the gangs will start with 10 fighters, as they get killed they will respawn back to one of the Turfs (roll 1d10)
But if any of the players acquire a shiny bribe counter then they get first choice of a new fighter for each counter.
So what happens if one player loses a lot of their gang and doesn't win any brides and doesn't have a turf under their control, how do they recover gang members? Just another worst case scenario to contemplate! ... Walts
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"The thing's hollow .. it goes on forever .. and .. oh my God! ... it's full of stars!"
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| zellak | Date: Monday, 31-Dec-2012, 17:06:03 | Message # 15 |
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(Morgoth) But what if there's four gangs on the table at the start of the game and four left at the end of the day?
You mean if everyone hides and no one wants to fight.
Never seen it happen, so we will worry about "what ifs" when they happen........(this is the type of conversation i have with the wife every day.)
(Morgoth) So what happens if one player loses a lot of their gang and doesn't win any brides and doesn't have a turf under their control, how do they recover gang members?
They fight another battle and make sure they find some shiny briBe counters.
If they dont, then they are screwed.....simples.
Added (31-Dec-2012, 2:38 PM)
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So here are the starting rules we worked out last game.
Shadowrunner 24 Rep (retires)/ Armour 2 / Lives 7 / Kool 11 / Close Combat 2 Red
Legend 16 Rep / Armour 2 / Lives 6 / Kool 11 / Close Combat 2 Red
Gang Leader 8 Rep / Armour 2 / Lives 5 / Kool 11 / Close Combat 2 Red
Samurai 4 Rep / Armour 2 / Lives 4 / Kool 9 / Close Combat 1 Red 1 White
Gangster 1 Rep / Armour 1 / Lives 3 / Kool 7 / Close Combat 2 White
Punk 0 Rep / Armour 0 / Lives 2 / Kool 5 / Close Combat 1 White
Punk Traits 1d10
10 Survivor : escape death if roll a 4+ (1d6) when killed.
9 Swift 9" move
8 Medic
7 Grenade : 1 per game. scatter die and template , 2 Red dice. 8" range.
6 Nails ; reroll morale checks
5 Unfit 4" movement
4 No Balls ; take a morale check if activate within 8" of enemy, fall back if fail.
3 No Show ; roll 4+ to turn up.
2 Traitor ; roll a 2+ (1d6) at start of each game or change sides.
1 Addict ; see card.
Combat Styles
6 Tactical
5 Drive By
4 Sniper
3 Flanker
2 Buddy
1 Psycho
Gangster Traits
6 High Power Ammo (extra white die shooting)
5 Kung Fu (reroll 1 melee die)
4 Stealth (+1 armour in cover)
3 Decker (Inspect 1d3 shiny counters)
2 Grapnel
1 No Balls
Shadowrunner / Legend / Gang Leader / Samurai Traits
6 Hardwired
5 Sub-Dermal Armour
4 Smartgun
3 Cyberspur
2 Cybereyes
1 Burnout (roll 4+ on 1d6 each activation or freeze for the turn.)
Gain 1 Rep for killing a Punk or Gangster
Gain 2 Rep for killing a Samurai or Gang Leader.
Leader gains 2 Rep after each battle (??? suggestion ???)
Suggestions ; Shiny Artifact Counter....choose one of; +2 Rep OR pick a card (Unique Items) OR remove a negative Trait.
Blank shiny counter = Bribe
Skulls shiny counter = 4 to 6 turn Psycho / 1 to 3 bomb ...Blast, 2 red dice.Added (31-Dec-2012, 4:06 PM)
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Addict
6 Sobers up, ok for rest of fight.
5 Psycho this turn.
4 Stagger 1d6" in random direction.
3 Shoot in random direction.
2 Throw up, miss a turn.
1 Keel over, out for rest of the fight.
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Message edited by zellak - Monday, 31-Dec-2012, 17:02:19
DEMON : " When next we meet, i shall tear you limb from limb...there will be no escape. "
Hero: " You bring balloon animals and i'll hire a clown..... we can make it a regular party. "
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| RMcN | Date: Monday, 31-Dec-2012, 21:32:57 | Message # 16 |
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(zellak)
Leader gains 2 Rep after each battle (??? suggestion ???)
Only of he wins the battles and keeps 50% or more of his crew!
Don't want to make it too easy to gain rep. Also keep the paperwork down.
Looks like you've been busy - is it just in case you lose some brain cells tonight and forget those ideas?!? 
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| zellak | Date: Monday, 31-Dec-2012, 22:38:13 | Message # 17 |
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(RMcN) is it just in case you lose some brain cells tonight and forget those ideas?!?
Ah...you know me too well.
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DEMON : " When next we meet, i shall tear you limb from limb...there will be no escape. "
Hero: " You bring balloon animals and i'll hire a clown..... we can make it a regular party. "
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| Che | Date: Tuesday, 01-Jan-2013, 18:40:05 | Message # 18 |
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Are we playing "Gang Wars" or "Seven Brides for Seven Brothers"? Think Morgoth gets a tad confused
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Wargamers like to paint their privates!!
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| zellak | Date: Tuesday, 01-Jan-2013, 19:12:20 | Message # 19 |
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(Che) Think Morgoth gets a tad confused[color=yellow]
MMMMMhmmmmm..............you think ?
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Got an e-mail from Che.
Che has done 100 counters for Gang Wars II.
zellak 01 to 10
Ross 11 to 20
Aiden 21 to 30
Rory 31 to 40
Che 41 to 50
Morgoth 51 to 60
So we can use whatever miniatures we like just number them the way you want.
Of course my stuff is available for use by anyone who still wants to use them.
Still need four players.
Banksi / Zealyot / Nemesis ?
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DEMON : " When next we meet, i shall tear you limb from limb...there will be no escape. "
Hero: " You bring balloon animals and i'll hire a clown..... we can make it a regular party. "
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| Zealyot | Date: Wednesday, 02-Jan-2013, 04:55:28 | Message # 20 |
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(zellak) Still need four players.
That'll be down to three then because I'm definitely in
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"In brightest day,
in blackest night,
no evil shall escape my sight,
let those who worship evil's might,
beware my power,
Green Lantern's light!"
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