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AT-43 4' x 4'
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| Nemesis | Date: Monday, 21-May-2012, 14:56:53 | Message # 41 |
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Quote (zellak) Covering the entire table.
Is that what you had in mind ?
Didn't quite think that one out, did I --- pretty sure some would like it though  especially if we ever had a 4 way fight
Quote (zellak) Or if using my suggestion of 3 TP per table quarter
sorry must have missed this one
Could reduce to 12 pieces each -(3 per 1/4)- or use 16 with a reduction of terrain after placement based on a d6 roll --- terrain removed on a roll of 1 --(might as well get the rubbish -(or good)- die rolls out of the way)- this might limit terrain on table as well as giving a random element to the game (does not FOG do something like this)
Game could end up with little or no terrain to hide behind --- that would create a bloodbath or two
Using the 2 TP for the larger (Swamps, Forests and Game Tiles) also would lessen number of pieces on table and give some longer lines of fire
Why don't we set up a table one Sunday when most of us are in early-ish, have a "dummy run" in placing terrain and see what it looks like physically rather than what we can imagine it looks like in our heads --- then we can adjust the 12/16 point measure either up or down until we like what we see???
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| Balrog | Date: Monday, 21-May-2012, 15:02:29 | Message # 42 |
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Quote (zellak) Sorry, but i dont think three different sets of rules for area terrain is a great idea.
Could we not have one rule for all ??????
5+ cover save / 3+ when using take cover drill ? (basic rules / easy to remember)
AFV cannot enter any of them. ... No rush moves through area terrain. ... Buildings are secured.
The simplier the better! 
Quote (zellak) Of course as the loser would pick the entry edge.....who knows which edge will be belong to who ???
Not knowing what side you'll come on will keep the battlefield varied and balanced, because u don't what the "open fields" end yourself! ... Lots of excellent ideas! Walts
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| zellak | Date: Friday, 08-Jun-2012, 20:22:38 | Message # 43 |
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Following on from some ideas bandied about on Sunday 3rd June.
What about roads ?
What if ???... units which move on roads for an entire activation, get to triple their Rush move bonus.....but cannot go on overwatch.
We could call it......................................Road-speed ???
Meep Meep. 
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DEMON : " When next we meet, i shall tear you limb from limb...there will be no escape. "
Hero: " You bring balloon animals and i'll hire a clown..... we can make it a regular party. "
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| Che | Date: Friday, 08-Jun-2012, 23:03:23 | Message # 44 |
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Can't cope. Too much vodka 
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Message edited by Che - Friday, 08-Jun-2012, 23:06:53
Wargamers like to paint their privates!!
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| Banksi | Date: Friday, 08-Jun-2012, 23:06:48 | Message # 45 |
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Quote (zellak) What if ???... units which move on roads for an entire activation, get to triple their Rush move bonus.....but cannot go on overwatch.
Sounds ok BUT...
No overwatch, no orders or fraction bonuses or unloading troops from transports that round!!!
They are moving so fast that they don't have time for any of the above!!!!
they can only take cover
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Of course I know your name, it's your face I can't remember - Parahandy
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| zellak | Date: Saturday, 09-Jun-2012, 13:24:12 | Message # 46 |
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Quote (Che) Can't cope. Too much vodka
Come back when you're sober.
Quote (Banksi) No overwatch, no orders or fraction bonuses or unloading troops from transports that round!!!
That would work 
Question ?................. Whats "or fraction bonuses" .................is that faction bonuses like Therian Dash routine ?
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DEMON : " When next we meet, i shall tear you limb from limb...there will be no escape. "
Hero: " You bring balloon animals and i'll hire a clown..... we can make it a regular party. "
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| pavlov | Date: Saturday, 09-Jun-2012, 14:10:54 | Message # 47 |
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HiQuote
Question ?................. Whats "or fraction bonuses" .................is that faction bonuses like Therian Dash routine ?
Well if the therians use the dash routine and move on a road then they could be off the table turn 1 or we need a bigger table :D,
Movement or lack of was never an issue during last sundays game I think what was more of an issue was that there was just too much on the table for the size of the table, at one point it looked like the south of England around june 4th 1944.
Alan
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There is f&*k all cool about 10+ civil engineers running around every battlefield
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| Nemesis | Date: Saturday, 09-Jun-2012, 15:38:30 | Message # 48 |
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Why not try (or use) the following
"Road Speed" --- double movement allowance AND overwatch --- treat as moving at "rush" movement speed --- but NO Loading/unloading. If one unit of a squad is on road treat all as being able to use the "Road Speed" rule. Not a fan of the "Rush" move at triple speed -(example :- Therian Hekat moves for 150cm straight down the road --- it will run out of battlefield on turn 1 unless it has good brakes  ).
In heavy terrain --- half speed and overwatch --- transports may load/unload
Everything else --- as rules
Following on from the Keep It Simple rule someone told me about
Mark
Added --- How would "road speed" rule work with regard to tiles or in city areas???
Added --- If a transport uses a "rush" move should it be able to unload troops??? current rule is yes --- which gives Infantry inside a very big advantage
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| zellak | Date: Saturday, 09-Jun-2012, 16:46:04 | Message # 49 |
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Quote (zellak) units which move on roads for an entire activation, get to triple their Rush move bonus.....but cannot go on overwatch.
Some examples.
Red Blok Infantry (normal move 14cm) Rush move bonus 6 cm x 3 =18 cm + normal move 14cm = 32 cm total.
Only the Rush move bonus is tripled.
UNA Cobra Rush move bonus 10 cm x 3 =30cm + 25cm normal move = 55cm move total.
Kraken Golgoth on Dash routine 25 cm x 3 = 75cm + 25cm normal move = 1000 mm move total....Yep thats broken it. 
i agree ......... Dash should not be combined with Road-speed.
About unloading troops ?
Should Camel / BTR 5 / DK / Wyvern be able use road speed ?
ONi APC has wheels , so no problem with it. And Kraken has legs.
Added (09-Jun-2012, 4:43 PM)
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Quote (Nemesis) Added --- How would "road speed" rule work with regard to tiles or in city areas???
It wouldn't, this is for using road pieces on the 4' x 4' table set up.
Quote (Nemesis) If a transport uses a "rush" move should it be able to unload troops??? current rule is yes --- which gives Infantry inside a very big advantage
I agree with Banksi...APC using Road-speed should not be allowed to embark / disembark troops.
Added (09-Jun-2012, 4:46 PM)
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Quote (pavlov) Movement or lack of was never an issue during last sundays game
True, i'm just suggesting a few rules for using roads in 4x4 games.
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Message edited by zellak - Saturday, 09-Jun-2012, 16:56:56
DEMON : " When next we meet, i shall tear you limb from limb...there will be no escape. "
Hero: " You bring balloon animals and i'll hire a clown..... we can make it a regular party. "
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| pavlov | Date: Saturday, 09-Jun-2012, 18:22:34 | Message # 50 |
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Hi
Quote Movement or lack of was never an issue during last sundays game
True, i'm just suggesting a few rules for using roads in 4x4 games. happy
I'm not being picky, it's just that last Sunday it would have been hard to get up to walking pace let alone super speedy road rage speed .
"Flyers" should problably be able to use road speed but troops should take a damage test when making the "leap of faith" at high speed.
Alan
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There is f&*k all cool about 10+ civil engineers running around every battlefield
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| zellak | Date: Saturday, 09-Jun-2012, 18:38:41 | Message # 51 |
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Quote (pavlov) but troops should take a damage test when making the "leap of faith" at high speed
Do we really need more "case specific" rules ?
Better to to keep it simple...... eh ?
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DEMON : " When next we meet, i shall tear you limb from limb...there will be no escape. "
Hero: " You bring balloon animals and i'll hire a clown..... we can make it a regular party. "
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| Banksi | Date: Thursday, 14-Jun-2012, 14:30:09 | Message # 52 |
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Quote (zellak) Question ?................. Whats "or fraction bonuses" .................is that faction bonuses like Therian Dash routine ?
Yes Routines or any other bonuses that each faction might have or could use.
Quote (zellak)
Should Camel / BTR 5 / DK / Wyvern be able use road speed ?
I don't think flyer/ skimmers would have any advantage from roads, the only things would be wheeled or walkers, even then walkers should have less trouble over rough ground than wheeled.
Walkers lack of speed is down to the mechanism limitations rather than the terrain, that's why we run about in wheeled cars and not walkers in rl
I suggest we go for this bunus to be added to movement (double move only)
Infantry 10cm bonus
Flyers/ skimmers 5cm bonus
Walkers 10cm bonus
Wheeled 20cm
Note - this would only be if the full movement was on a road.
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Of course I know your name, it's your face I can't remember - Parahandy
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| zellak | Date: Thursday, 14-Jun-2012, 20:43:37 | Message # 53 |
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Quote (Banksi) I suggest we go for this bonus to be added to movement (double move only)
Infantry 10cm bonus
Flyers/ skimmers 5cm bonus
Walkers 10cm bonus
Wheeled 20cm
So is this double normal movement + the suggested bonus ?
Or double a Rush movement + bonus ????
example ; UNA Camel in the first case 25cm x 2 = 50cm + 5cm bonus (Anti-G) = 55cm total Road speed
in the second case..... 35cm x 2 =70cm + 5cm bonus (Anti-G) = 75 cm Road speed. Maybe tooooo much eh ???
(In the second case an ONi APC would do 40 cm x 2 = 80cm + 20cm bonus (wheels) = 100 cm !!! .....Far to much imho.)
How much faster do we want things to travel at road speed ???
Prolly better to start from defining what we want AFV to move using Road speed.
And then to find a mechanism to achieve that.
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DEMON : " When next we meet, i shall tear you limb from limb...there will be no escape. "
Hero: " You bring balloon animals and i'll hire a clown..... we can make it a regular party. "
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| Banksi | Date: Thursday, 14-Jun-2012, 21:23:37 | Message # 54 |
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Quote (zellak)
So is this double normal movement + the suggested bonus ?
Or double a Rush movement + bonus ????
No just double movement plus the bonus
Quote (zellak) (In the second case an ONi APC would do 40 cm x 2 = 80cm + 20cm bonus (wheels) = 100 cm !!! .....Far to much imho.)
Looking at this perhaps the stats already include the variations in vehicle mechanics and to tinker with them anymore might break them
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Of course I know your name, it's your face I can't remember - Parahandy
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| Banksi | Date: Thursday, 14-Jun-2012, 21:42:07 | Message # 55 |
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Look at it this way
Flyers / Skimmers get next to no bonus from roads
Walkers are limited by there own mechanics
Wheeled vehicles are the real winners on a road.
What do you want to achieve from a road bonus?
Since it is a skirmish game, Do you think we need road bonuses? These are normally used in larger scaled battles i.e WW2 & Modern micro, off & on table marches in Ancients etc.
I would suggest that road bonuses only be used if a scenario was created where the table as 3 or 4 tiles wide and over 6 to 8 tiles long, with objectives at each end.
a road bonus on a 4 x 4 tile or 4" x 6" play area really isn't required.
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Of course I know your name, it's your face I can't remember - Parahandy
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| zellak | Date: Thursday, 14-Jun-2012, 21:58:26 | Message # 56 |
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Quote (Banksi) Looking at this perhaps the stats already include the variations in vehicle mechanics and to tinker with them anymore might break them
Maybe ??? But i doubt it.
But lets say, for talking sake, we agreed that 60cm was okay for Road-speed for all vehicles (and for simplicity infantry cannot use Road speed).
( i dont think Anti-G would go faster on road...but am wary of being accused of Anti-Karman activity  ....so i agree that Anti-G can use Road speed)
Then we would not have to remember all the different speeds for different trooptypes.
It might give us a start point for testing ?Added (14-Jun-2012, 9:58 PM)
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Quote (Banksi) What do you want to achieve from a road bonus?
To make movement faster on such a large playing area.
To give a tactical dimension to placing roads on the battlefield.
And in so doing, giving a good reason to use the road terrain we have at the club.
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DEMON : " When next we meet, i shall tear you limb from limb...there will be no escape. "
Hero: " You bring balloon animals and i'll hire a clown..... we can make it a regular party. "
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| Banksi | Date: Thursday, 14-Jun-2012, 22:16:29 | Message # 57 |
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Quote (zellak) To make movement faster on such a large playing area.
To give a tactical dimension to placing roads on the battlefield.
And in so doing, giving a good reason to use the road terrain we have at the club.
As previously stated - I do think it's not necessary on a 4 x 6 tile table but can see the tactical point if using on a table over 6 tiles in width/ length
As to anti-g or wheeled - Both are loosing out and walkers are gaining.
A set amount bonus means that each is getting the same bonus but is does break the mechanics already set up in the stats.
A percentage increase would be fairer e.g 10% or 15% added to a double move
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Of course I know your name, it's your face I can't remember - Parahandy
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| zellak | Date: Friday, 15-Jun-2012, 15:34:13 | Message # 58 |
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Quote (Banksi) A percentage increase would be fairer e.g 10% or 15% added to a double move
Fairness ???? .....i'm not keen on any system where i have to start counting percentages.
Quote (Banksi) As to anti-g or wheeled - Both are loosing out and walkers are gaining.
TBH slower moving AFV are gaining and faster ones are losing out if we go with a set Road-speed (ie 60 cm)
There are slow Anti-G AFV (BTR-5 20cm move) and fast walker AFV. (FireToad 30cm move)
So what ! 
It would be easier to remember. 
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DEMON : " When next we meet, i shall tear you limb from limb...there will be no escape. "
Hero: " You bring balloon animals and i'll hire a clown..... we can make it a regular party. "
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