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Forum » AT-43 Discussions » AT-43 - General » Grumpy Old Wargamers Corner (Have a moan!)
Grumpy Old Wargamers Corner
BalrogDate: Wednesday, 30-Nov-2011, 6:53 AM | Message # 1
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Hi Folks, it's been a long day and I felt like a moan about AT-43 where the main problem we're having with the AT-43 rules in general is we're bringing in rules, ideas and concepts from other wargames and forcing them onto the AT-43 game. We're all guilty of this.

The AT-43 rules should only be assessed or questioned on their own merit. Obviously, there's always going to be rules that need CLARIFICATION, but reading things into rules that just aren't there, like H2H bonuses with the CoF and my minefield suggestion, is not the way to go, especially when the new rule suggestions don't benefit ALL the army's.

Even if three of the four armys benefit from a rule tweak, we should not use it. It should be all army's that benefit or none and that should be core to all tweaks ... past & present!

Walts "Grumpy Chap #1"
 
zellakDate: Wednesday, 30-Nov-2011, 11:47 AM | Message # 2
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Quote (Balrog)
Even if three of the four armys benefit from a rule tweak, we should not use it. It should be all army's that benefit or none and that should be core to all tweaks ... past & present!


I agree with this up to a point.

But some rules are just not good enough. Grenades are the weak point of the rules and need changed, this may not favour some armies.

But it still needs changed
.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Using civil engineers as they are done by some clubs would waste the game imho.

We could see 7 or 8 on the table in every battle, which would change the game dynamic in the extreme.

As you would no longer need to spend as much time capturing secondary objectives in order to bring on the rest of your force.

And people...in order to get a game advantage...would be forced to buy civil engineers. Wrongwrongwrong !

This would be fair for all armies , but would ruin the game.

DEMON : " When next we meet, i shall tear you limb from limb...there will be no escape. "

Hero: " You bring balloon animals and i'll hire a clown..... we can make it a regular party. "
 
pavlovDate: Wednesday, 30-Nov-2011, 7:59 PM | Message # 3
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Hi

As you would no longer need to spend as much time capturing secondary objectives in order to bring on the rest of your force.


Just like whats happening with Oni right now since we cant kill them.

And people...in order to get a game advantage...would be forced to buy civil engineers. Wrongwrongwrong!

Correct Wrongwrongwrong there free so no purchase required.

This would be fair for all armies , but would ruin the game

Since we cant't do it we wont know..................should have left them as hero's as the rules state the players then would have been able to kill them ......there's a game dynamic worth watching much more inresting than watching one opponent use the only available super hero engineers to bring on his reinforcements from the furthest away corner.

Makes you wonder about game "tweaks" that make the game more interesting.


There is f&*k all cool about 10+ civil engineers running around every battlefield
 
CheDate: Wednesday, 30-Nov-2011, 8:45 PM | Message # 4
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Message edited by Che - Wednesday, 30-Nov-2011, 8:49 PM

I never forget a face, but in your case I'm willing to make an exception - Groucho Marx.
 
BalrogDate: Wednesday, 30-Nov-2011, 8:53 PM | Message # 5
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Quote (Che)
Message deleted

Wise words lost to the masses ... or the delete bin at least!

I see u might be playing Cyper Punk on Sunday? I would be up for a game! ... Walts
 
BalrogDate: Wednesday, 30-Nov-2011, 8:59 PM | Message # 6
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... Civil Engineers ... yeah, we need to vote on that one too! wacko

Not that they've been used much, but whatever is decided effects the masses, even though the ONi have most of them! Never did work out where they ALL where? I'm guessing there's four of them and ONi have three? Where's the loose cannon ... dead??? ... or in the Therian camp??? ... will we ever know ... the excitment is toooo muchhhhh!!!! ... blink crazy blink Walts
 
CheDate: Wednesday, 30-Nov-2011, 9:02 PM | Message # 7
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Quote (Balrog)
Wise words lost to the masses ...


I almost said something I would have regretted.

Quote (Balrog)
I see u might be playing Cyper Punk on Sunday? I would be up for a game!


You're welcome to join in, of course.
Message edited by Che - Wednesday, 30-Nov-2011, 9:05 PM

I never forget a face, but in your case I'm willing to make an exception - Groucho Marx.
 
BalrogDate: Wednesday, 30-Nov-2011, 9:39 PM | Message # 8
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Quote (Che)
I almost said something I would have regretted.

I wouldn't worry about it Che, I doubt I'm winning any friends with all the aggro I'm bringing to the table side! friends

To be honest, these forums are nothing to what I have to go through at work. I'm always up for a good "banter-war" in the forums! blink loony blink

But, u did have a few wise words to say last Sunday, u should air them here. Maybe someone will take on board what u said, u never know!


Put me down for a squad of ur cyperPunkers this Sunday! Walts
 
CheDate: Wednesday, 30-Nov-2011, 10:11 PM | Message # 9
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Quote (Balrog)
I wouldn't worry about it Che,


I don't, Balrog!

Quote (Balrog)
Maybe someone will take on board what u said,


Oops! Nearly did it again!
Message edited by Che - Wednesday, 30-Nov-2011, 10:13 PM

I never forget a face, but in your case I'm willing to make an exception - Groucho Marx.
 
zellakDate: Thursday, 01-Dec-2011, 0:38 AM | Message # 10
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Quote (pavlov)
Correct Wrongwrongwrong there free so no purchase required.


I didn't mean AP....i meant cash.

We (the AT43 old guard) interpreted from the rules that the only way to get civil engineers was to capture the colony sector in Red Fields battlefront.

Therefore as we were starting a new campaign, (without that sector advantage).

we thought it would be fun to addcivil engineers to this one....only four, one for each army.

So far the Therian/Oni have captured the RB and UNA ones....

but they are welcome to come and get them back if they think they are hard enough. tongue

we still have one to collect, owned by the monkeys.....but it does not show up on any of their 4 army lists !

They must be frightened we will come and assimilate him as well >>>>>>>>>> LOL.

Pavlov has a real problem with not being able to kill them.......if you want to change them to heroes then we will also need rules for what happens when they die/ get turned into zombies/ etc etc etc/ whatever ?


DEMON : " When next we meet, i shall tear you limb from limb...there will be no escape. "

Hero: " You bring balloon animals and i'll hire a clown..... we can make it a regular party. "
 
pavlovDate: Thursday, 01-Dec-2011, 6:10 PM | Message # 11
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Hi

Pavlov has a real problem with not being able to kill them


Yup not just with killing them but with not being able to "buy" them for my companies and since i'm the only player who has had to deal with the problem that the current situation has created then it's not realy fair to make light of it, it should have been fixed when we "discussed" it earlier but no one realy understood the implications of allowing one faction to control almost all of the engineers and making them immortal.

The engineers when killed are just available to each faction that's how the rules work I think 1 per squad some nice easy ap for everyone.

Alan

There is f&*k all cool about 10+ civil engineers running around every battlefield
 
zellakDate: Friday, 02-Dec-2011, 0:29 AM | Message # 12
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Quote (pavlov)
The engineers when killed are just available to each faction that's how the rules work I think 1 per squad some nice easy ap for everyone.


I'm willing to look at other ideas on how to use civeng's.....but i think allowing every infantry unit in the game a free civeng would waste the game.

Thats my main worry.

The guy on the understairs forum said that they changed the tourney rules after he maxed out (and won) with this ploy.

In this instance its better to learn from others mistakes.

So making the 4 civengs into heroes..................for this campaign.......might be the best option.

I know you are not happy with the Status Quo, and that is why i brought it up.

DEMON : " When next we meet, i shall tear you limb from limb...there will be no escape. "

Hero: " You bring balloon animals and i'll hire a clown..... we can make it a regular party. "
 
BalrogDate: Friday, 02-Dec-2011, 0:34 AM | Message # 13
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Having had a quick read at the Civvy Rules, I think there would be a crazy number of them running about the game table ...
    Each platoon in a company may include up to three civil engineers;
    Each engineer can be integrated to one of the company’s infantry units for free. A unit can only include one civil engineer.
... so, if I was to field my usual company of two platoons, I would be allowed 6 civvys, which could easily be added to the seven/eight units that I field. 6 civvy's an army ... crazzzyyyyyyy .... and ching, ching for the model makers!

I think the original idea of one each per army is more than enough. I suppose if you lost your Civvy, u should be able to get a new one from HQ, but I'm not bothered ether way. I don't think they should be immortal too! When their dead, their dead ... get a new one from the HQ. As to being zombies, reading the ONi manual, I noticed this comment in the storyline ...

    ONI soldiers who have nothing to lose can request an O serum injection while
    still alive. They in turn become zombielike, but retain their intelligence.
... so u could say their still Civvy's?

... but if killed with the Zombie Gun, they suffer the same fate as any dead soldier ... "returns to play as a “Contaminator” or “Detonator” virus zombie!"

And, as Z said ... "come & get them!" ... if u want to win them back. Another challange by the mighty Therian Overseer "1234" leader!

Walts
 
pavlovDate: Friday, 02-Dec-2011, 12:51 PM | Message # 14
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Hi

Wrong not everyone is going to take that many............play the rules.

There is f&*k all cool about 10+ civil engineers running around every battlefield
 
BalrogDate: Friday, 02-Dec-2011, 4:42 PM | Message # 15
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Quote (pavlov)
Hi ... Wrong not everyone is going to take that many............play the rules.

Play the rules? The original rules from the Frostbite manual (Page 10) ...
    Each platoon in a company may include up to three civil engineers;
    Each engineer can be integrated to one of the company’s infantry units for free. A unit can only include one civil engineer.
... or another set of rules? blink huh blink

If it is the original rules ... as far as I understand things ... fielding a company with two platoons (which seems to be the norm for most of our armies) then u get 6 Civvy's max, which can be placed free as one Civvy per unit?

Or have I got my numbers wrong?

If we where to play this rule, I'd take the six!!! surprised That's 300 points per round without capturing anything, so why wouldn't you take the 300 snappers ... easy peassyyyyyy!

Walts
 
pavlovDate: Friday, 02-Dec-2011, 5:15 PM | Message # 16
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cool

There is f&*k all cool about 10+ civil engineers running around every battlefield
 
zellakDate: Saturday, 03-Dec-2011, 0:08 AM | Message # 17
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There is fuck all cool about 10+ civil engineers running around every battlefield !!! angry
Message edited by zellak - Saturday, 03-Dec-2011, 3:35 PM

DEMON : " When next we meet, i shall tear you limb from limb...there will be no escape. "

Hero: " You bring balloon animals and i'll hire a clown..... we can make it a regular party. "
 
pavlovDate: Saturday, 03-Dec-2011, 7:13 AM | Message # 18
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Hi

what a potential 30 orange paraka's on the table in one game, that would be awsome and all the points you could have everything on the table turn two, real game leveler that would be, no watching your opponent bringing on his reinforcements on turn two while you can't do anything about it.

Alan

There is f&*k all cool about 10+ civil engineers running around every battlefield
 
BalrogDate: Saturday, 03-Dec-2011, 8:26 AM | Message # 19
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Quote (zellak)
There is f%&k all cool about 10+ civil engineers running around every battlefield !!!

I would have to agree, but without the swearing, pleasssseee ... we have children and fairy's reading the forums.

Keep them mortal ... maybe one per company as a MAX, with no moving them about company's and when u lose them ... win them back ... or they die ... tough!

Walts
 
pavlovDate: Saturday, 03-Dec-2011, 10:41 AM | Message # 20
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play the rules no advantage to one or the other just play the rules.
Message edited by pavlov - Saturday, 03-Dec-2011, 10:46 AM

There is f&*k all cool about 10+ civil engineers running around every battlefield
 
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