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Forum » AT-43 Discussions » AT-43 - Armies » Karman - vanilla list - support units (Karman core list errata)
Karman - vanilla list - support units
zellakDate: Friday, 11-May-2012, 11:21 PM | Message # 21
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Quote (Banksi)
Can we please stop asking questions on other forums about questions we are discussing here, WE don't need others opinions especially when everyone else seems to have different opinions about this.


I thought we were not going to do this anymore ?????

But now we have.....if Aftermath has weighed in and backed the errata done by Supercollider....

Then it must have come from the old Rackham forum....therefor is correct with the RAW.

Does not mean we cannot change it though !!!!

Headless and Nazgul dont like the restrictions either.

DEMON : " When next we meet, i shall tear you limb from limb...there will be no escape. "

Hero: " You bring balloon animals and i'll hire a clown..... we can make it a regular party. "
 
BalrogDate: Friday, 11-May-2012, 11:26 PM | Message # 22
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Quote (Banksi)
Can we please stop asking questions on other forums about questions we are discussing here, WE don't need others opinions especially when everyone else seems to have different opinions about this.

Soz Guys ... As usual, it's me! If this problems been floating about forever, then the players at the other forums don't know about it and I just wanted to bring it too their attention that the Open R-Tool is wrong. Shouldn't we share rule problems/solutions with other club/forums? No one club/person knows the rules 100% and they've obviously not noticed it, so I just wanted to bring it up for them to look into.

We all want the AT-43 rules to be right, so now they'll see something that's passed them by ... Walts
 
gerrywithaGDate: Friday, 11-May-2012, 11:27 PM | Message # 23
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Also should add I also downloaded a French version of the errata..............

..........4 pages long in total whilst ours is how many???????????

Cheers

Gerry

And I am watching YOU!!!!!!!!!!!
 
BalrogDate: Saturday, 12-May-2012, 0:17 AM | Message # 24
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Hi Guys ... I've updated the Karman Factions data file ...

>>> http://www.at-43.understairs.nl/forum....1#p6831

... if anyone's interested in getting it right ... Walts
 
BanksiDate: Saturday, 12-May-2012, 12:43 PM | Message # 25
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Gerry, the cogs factions have no restrictions on support units. They all list infantry.

Plus the cogs have some off the best support units in the game.

Of course I know your name, it's your face I can't remember - Parahandy
 
zellakDate: Saturday, 12-May-2012, 1:41 PM | Message # 26
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Quote (gerrywithaG)
That therefore restricts the UNA and Therians to one per platoon, the Karmans and Red Blok to zero, the ONI and COGS to zero as they have no support units at all.


Well spotted Gerry. happy

And, even though the ONi can have as many as three support units in every vanilla company.

......there are no ONi support units .....bet they were going to be in the next campaign book (the desert one that was never published) sad

Oh well. cry

Added (12-May-2012, 1:41 PM)
---------------------------------------------

Quote (Banksi)
Plus the cogs have some off the best support units in the game.


They have some of the best everything in the game.....LOL biggrin

DEMON : " When next we meet, i shall tear you limb from limb...there will be no escape. "

Hero: " You bring balloon animals and i'll hire a clown..... we can make it a regular party. "
 
pavlovDate: Saturday, 12-May-2012, 6:54 PM | Message # 27
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Edit
Message edited by pavlov - Thursday, 17-May-2012, 5:03 PM

There is f&*k all cool about 10+ civil engineers running around every battlefield
 
zellakDate: Saturday, 12-May-2012, 8:04 PM | Message # 28
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Quote (pavlov)
Need a link


Ich kann nicht.

It was rumoured to be ....but was never published AFAIK.

DEMON : " When next we meet, i shall tear you limb from limb...there will be no escape. "

Hero: " You bring balloon animals and i'll hire a clown..... we can make it a regular party. "
 
BalrogDate: Saturday, 12-May-2012, 8:20 PM | Message # 29
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Quote (Banksi)
OMG!!!!

I just realised why Rackham Died... Because they were Stupid!!!!

I like to think of the rules as being "simplistic", "fantastical", "unique", "challenging", "as hole ridden as ... ", "extremely vague" ... and a few other words, which mixed together does equate to "Stupid!" wink But, let's be honest, what's more stupid than chess if we where to get all analytic about everything?! What's that game all about!!! How can castles move? Why does the bishop only go diagonally, is he drunk!!!

I think Rackham must have played a lot of chess and wanted to mess with everyone. AT-43 = French "va-va-vooom" at it's best!!! ... Walts
 
gerrywithaGDate: Saturday, 12-May-2012, 10:12 PM | Message # 30
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Hey!!!!! angry

Chess is a wonderful game. A whole different level of war gaming. Don't knock it thanks very much!!!!

Cheers

Gerry

And I am watching YOU!!!!!!!!!!!
 
zellakDate: Sunday, 13-May-2012, 0:21 AM | Message # 31
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Quote (Balrog)
I think Rackham..... wanted to mess with everyone. AT-43 = French "va-va-vooom" at it's best!!! ... Walts


i always liked the way that yanks would come on the old Rackham forum and demand to know the correct rules.

and Jean Bey would say " have fun ...play it as you will. smile " .....it used to psyche them out biggrin ......

the way it seems to do to some of our club members. wacko

Remember, its only a game with toy soldiers....only egos get hurt. wink

DEMON : " When next we meet, i shall tear you limb from limb...there will be no escape. "

Hero: " You bring balloon animals and i'll hire a clown..... we can make it a regular party. "
 
BalrogDate: Sunday, 13-May-2012, 7:29 AM | Message # 32
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Quote (gerrywithaG)
Hey!!!!!

Chess is a wonderful game. A whole different level of war gaming. Don't knock it thanks very much!!!!

Cheers ... Gerry

Soz Gerry, I luv chess!

I didn't mean to knock the first every "wargame" I played as a kid, but boy, did it every confuse me when the master keep going on about castles moving and knights riding wonky! smile

My point is that too much "analysing" is going on with the armybooks & core rules which can't be justified, as AT-43 is a fantasy game. Obviously, clarity is needed, but not at the expense of giving an army an advantage where there never was one or even taking away a disadvantage. Players have to be unbiased when making decisions on everything, and I just haven't seen that no matter how many times I keep saying it. I'd been biased towards the UNA when I played them, but I've moved on from that knowling the problems it would have caused if I got my way with the "BattleAxe" artillery! No-one else has.

I also don't believe we should be adding in rules as well, like the "Jump System" ruling of old that only INF can use it. Keep things simple and play the rules as their written. Adding in these rules doesn't bring anything to the game ... imho of course ... Walts
 
zellakDate: Sunday, 13-May-2012, 7:36 PM | Message # 33
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Quote (Balrog)
I also don't believe we should be adding in rules as well, like the "Jump System" ruling of old that only INF can use it.


To be honest ...we didn't change the rule, its just the way we interpreted the "jump system".

We just didn't think it applied to AFV, cos that would be dopey.

There was never a point when we decided to change the rules, we just misinterpreted from the start.

No big deal, as everyone playing at that time was happy with the interpretation as it made sense to us.

DEMON : " When next we meet, i shall tear you limb from limb...there will be no escape. "

Hero: " You bring balloon animals and i'll hire a clown..... we can make it a regular party. "
 
BalrogDate: Sunday, 13-May-2012, 8:45 PM | Message # 34
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Quote (zellak)
No big deal, as everyone playing at that time was happy with the interpretation as it made sense to us.

But we now know that our interpretation was wrong, and that all "fighters" (ie Striders, AFV & Inf) can have the ability as a company. Core to all the rules is that it's a game of fantasy! Because this ability was tweaked, Therians have no way of "flying" their troop carrier around the battlefield, so it's a major disadvantage to them. This is my problem with all the tweaks floating about ... they all have unwanted effects on specific armies, factions or units in some way.

I say bin them all, except the one's needed for clarity. Keep things simple as Rackham intented. Why make a specific rule for one unit or hero, that restricts gameplay and unit movement or gives odd armies advantages, regardless of how small that tweak might seem. Sods law, a tweak will win a battle and cause heartache for someone! ... Walts
 
BalrogDate: Sunday, 13-May-2012, 11:03 PM | Message # 35
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Hey Guys ... I've just noticed something rather interestinggggggg regarding the Karman (vanilla) main army composition, from a French point of view!

It was Gerry that put me onto the idea when he said he'd downloaded the French book, so I just thought about all the previous ref's in forums to wonky translations and downloaded the French Karman Armybook, copied the unit composition and look what cropped up in the Google translation app ...


Unité de fantassins <=> "Infantry Unit"

I kid myself on that the French books are the original rules as written, and our English books to be wonky! The French word ... Soldat <=> "Soldier" ... is mentioned throughout the book, which is used to reference soldiers, so Nazgul is right, based on the French books! blink huh shok huh blink

So, I'll happily eat some humble pie and say Banksi should get the INF classification in his (vanilla) army as Nazgul has written in the Open R-Tool and apologize for doubting the guys tool, ohh-errr misses! He's obviously French (is he???) or speaks the lingo and uses the French books for everything, ergo he's right.

Of course, having checked other inHouse Rules we've made in the past against the French rules, we've made a few other "bo-bo's" like the one above! surprised See if u can spot the bad interpretations!!! ... Walts
 
BanksiDate: Monday, 14-May-2012, 8:04 AM | Message # 36
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Waltz,
Can you clarify in a single sentence please, is the karman core soldier statement a translation error or not.

Of course I know your name, it's your face I can't remember - Parahandy
 
BalrogDate: Monday, 14-May-2012, 9:20 AM | Message # 37
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Quote (Banksi)
Waltz,
Can you clarify in a single sentence please, is the karman core soldier statement a translation error or not.

Yes, the English (Karman Armybook) translation is wrong ... Walts

PS: Link to French downloads that I found ... http://rafpark.free.fr/crbst_18.html

PPS: The Errata was right again, but I got confused by Nazguls Open R-Tool being wrong. The English translation is RIGHT, the Open R-Tool is wrong!
Message edited by Balrog - Monday, 14-May-2012, 11:54 PM
 
zellakDate: Monday, 14-May-2012, 4:12 PM | Message # 38
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So ...are we now allowed to search the German and French books for other translations?

In order to find more advantages for our armies.

OOOOOOh fun !

NOT angry

DEMON : " When next we meet, i shall tear you limb from limb...there will be no escape. "

Hero: " You bring balloon animals and i'll hire a clown..... we can make it a regular party. "
 
BanksiDate: Monday, 14-May-2012, 4:35 PM | Message # 39
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Quote (Balrog)
Yes, the English (Karman Armybook) translation is wrong ... Walts



I have to agree with Walts on this one, Both Unité d’infanterie and Unité de fantassins mean units of infantry

Added (14-May-2012, 4:35 PM)
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Quote (zellak)
So ...are we now allowed to search the German and French books for other translations?


Since French was the original text , Yes we are allowed to see how it was originally intended

Of course I know your name, it's your face I can't remember - Parahandy
 
gerrywithaGDate: Monday, 14-May-2012, 4:47 PM | Message # 40
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I think we need to be careful about using the translations of individual words or small phrases as, when translated literally, they can mean something slightly different to what they mean when in a full sentence or paragraph.

As an example Fantassin is translated as infantryman, foot soldier, or grunt

Cheers

Gerry

And I am watching YOU!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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