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AT-43 Rules - Civil Engineer's - Immortals?
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| Balrog | Date: Tuesday, 16-Aug-2011, 06:38:16 | Message # 1 |
Aun Va III
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Are Civil Engineers Immortal and can't be killed by any weapon fire? To capture them, you need to wipe out the unit they are attached too!
I would say YES, that way we don't need to worry about placing them elsewhere on the battlefield when their "killed" ... the unit their attached too is wiped out is the only way to capture one ... kill all the inf in the unit! Kill them all!
It's 50 AP's a pop per civvy, so their worth going after ... Corp Valtz
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| pavlov | Date: Monday, 22-Aug-2011, 21:19:25 | Message # 2 |
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Evnin all
I think that civvy engineers should be treated as heroes as per page 77 of main rule book.
Alan
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There is f&*k all cool about 10+ civil engineers running around every battlefield
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| zellak | Date: Tuesday, 23-Aug-2011, 10:08:52 | Message # 3 |
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On page 86 of the Op Frostbite book , the civil engineers count as heroes , for the Elysee Colony scenario.
So there is a precedence in the rules for this.
Its just a lot simpler to say they are immortal....less hassle with things like snipers/indirect fire /being turned into zombies/ close combat/getting run over
(or a lot of other things i have not thought of....  happen.
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DEMON : " When next we meet, i shall tear you limb from limb...there will be no escape. "
Hero: " You bring balloon animals and i'll hire a clown..... we can make it a regular party. "
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| Balrog | Date: Tuesday, 23-Aug-2011, 18:44:26 | Message # 4 |
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Aun Va III
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Hey Guys ... The poll results are in with ...
6 for ... "Yes ... Civil Engineers are Immortal!" ... and ...
1 for ... "NO ... all Type 1 infantry rules apply! ... BUT, they re-appear in the next turn!?" ...
so the Civvy's are Immortal!!!
On a personal note, I agree with Z ... anything for an easy life! ... Corp Valts
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| pavlov | Date: Thursday, 25-Aug-2011, 19:24:23 | Message # 5 |
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Hi
Will we be having a vote on all rules now. I can see the point of this if the rule for engineers was like some of the other stuff "a bit off with the translation" but let's face it the rules for engineers are pretty clear cut, there type 1 infantry treated as heroes use normal medic rules and are last to die. Simple and couldnt be easier.
Alan
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There is f&*k all cool about 10+ civil engineers running around every battlefield
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| Balrog | Date: Thursday, 25-Aug-2011, 20:18:27 | Message # 6 |
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Aun Va III
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Quote (pavlov) Hi
Will we be having a vote on all rules now. I can see the point of this if the rule for engineers was like some of the other stuff "a bit off with the translation" but let's face it the rules for engineers are pretty clear cut, there type 1 infantry treated as heroes use normal medic rules and are last to die. Simple and couldnt be easier.
Alan
Hey Alan ... Originally, I was happy to go with the rules as they are for Civvy's ... but it keeps things a lot simplier & more interesting as Civvy's are movable objectives (50 APs a pop!) ... so making them immortal adds something to the game, as Zellak orignally proposed ... and I followed! ... Walts.
PS. We don't need to vote on ALL the rules, but some do need a bit more clarity & inhouse tweaking, as long as it adds to the game. I'll prepare a PDF of inhouse rule tweaks that can be used by all players to make life easy for us all ... especially ME ... Walts "No Memory, especially when it comes to rules!!!!"
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| pavlov | Date: Thursday, 25-Aug-2011, 22:29:14 | Message # 7 |
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Hi
So in the Serenity city senario if the Karman lose Karl they cant kill him or call in a maeser strike etc etc to try and force a draw which i would do without hesitation. Civvy are type 1 infantry not walls or containers and should be subject to the rules as stated in the book, the rules as they stand are pretty simple.
This gives an advantage now to players with civvy engineers in the caves of doubt phase 2 they will be able to pick up rp free for repairing the roof so they can basically go out into the open and the medic can be used on other squad members instead of fixing the numpty in the orange parka, also where do you place the figure at the front or at the back, can you now use him as a meat shield, you could also use them for triggering mine fields for no loss.
As I said I dont mind fixing rules that lack clarity but this rule is very clear cut.
Alan
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There is f&*k all cool about 10+ civil engineers running around every battlefield
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| Balrog | Date: Friday, 26-Aug-2011, 03:53:41 | Message # 8 |
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Aun Va III
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Quote (pavlov) Hi
So in the Serenity city senario if the Karman lose Karl they cant kill him or call in a maeser strike etc etc to try and force a draw which i would do without hesitation. Civvy are type 1 infantry not walls or containers and should be subject to the rules as stated in the book, the rules as they stand are pretty simple.
Hey Alan ... I would agree with what you say, but making the Civvy's immortal simplifies things further, IMHO and 6 other AT-43 players. Karl isn't a Civvy ... he's listed as a leader, aka Hero, so the Civvy rules don't apply to him? If a civvy's unit is destroyed, he doesn't belong to any faction, so stays put until "captured" by a passing faction.
Simplifing rules for any board/war-game should be the order of the day for all players, as long as it doesn't ruin gameplay?
Quote (pavlov) This gives an advantage now to players with civvy engineers in the caves of doubt phase 2 they will be able to pick up rp free for repairing the roof so they can basically go out into the open and the medic can be used on other squad members instead of fixing the numpty in the orange parka, also where do you place the figure at the front or at the back, can you now use him as a meat shield, you could also use them for triggering mine fields for no loss.
Gaining advantages is what playings all about, so winning battles/sectors should give that faction an advantage. It make's Civvy's an advantage for the CoD sector, that's all. Each company that enters the sector is allowed at least one Free civvy, so players will need to be more tactial in moving units together to stop them from getting grounded, plus think on capturing apponents Civvy's even more valuable. As civvy's suffer no damage, it's irrelevent where u put them ... damage goes to the units "cannon fodder" first, as is the case for Hero's. Simple?
If a Civvy walks over a minefield, all the models in the unit still suffer an attack ... basic minefield rules. If one model touches the minefield, everyone in the unit suffers! OUCH!!! Better to use the Civvy to remove the minefield with his sabotage ability!
Quote (pavlov) As I said I dont mind fixing rules that lack clarity but this rule is very clear cut. Alan
Once again, I hear what ur saying, but putting forward suggestions to improve the rules & gameplay is a part of developing any game. In-house rules have always been a part of developing any game, whether the rules work or not. It's the reason we had an open vote to anyone who has an understanding of AT-43 ... Walts
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| zellak | Date: Friday, 26-Aug-2011, 10:49:03 | Message # 9 |
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Quote (pavlov) So in the Serenity city senario if the Karman lose Karl they cant kill him or call in a maeser strike etc etc to try and force a draw which i would do without hesitation.
Which would force a tie.
As nobody had evacuated Karl.
In which case both sides retreat to HQ.
Quote (Balrog) Quote (pavlov)
This gives an advantage now to players with civvy engineers in the caves of doubt phase 2 they will be able to pick up rp free for repairing the roof so they can basically go out into the open and the medic can be used on other squad members instead of fixing the numpty in the orange parka
Civil engineers cannot reinforce a collapsing point, its only "Overseers, Combat Engineers or a fighter with the hoist ability"
And only a type 3 monkey and a Hecat Golgoth can hoist AFAIK.
I think a UNA field engineer is equivalent to a RB combat engineer. As they have the same abilities.
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DEMON : " When next we meet, i shall tear you limb from limb...there will be no escape. "
Hero: " You bring balloon animals and i'll hire a clown..... we can make it a regular party. "
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| Banksi | Date: Friday, 26-Aug-2011, 13:10:07 | Message # 10 |
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Quote (zellak) Quote (pavlov)
So in the Serenity city senario if the Karman lose Karl they cant kill him or call in a maeser strike etc etc to try and force a draw which i would do without hesitation.
Which would force a tie.
As nobody had evacuated Karl.
In which case both sides retreat to HQ.
Why not just go with the rules as they are written for Serenity city, there is a good possibility of a tie without killing Karl
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Of course I know your name, it's your face I can't remember - Parahandy
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| zellak | Date: Friday, 26-Aug-2011, 23:02:16 | Message # 11 |
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Quote (Banksi) Why not just go with the rules as they are written for Serenity city, there is a good possibility of a tie without killing Karl
Its a moot point, as we are talking about the Phase 1 scenario, phase 2 is different.
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DEMON : " When next we meet, i shall tear you limb from limb...there will be no escape. "
Hero: " You bring balloon animals and i'll hire a clown..... we can make it a regular party. "
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