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MedTec Units
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| Balrog | Date: Monday, 12-Sep-2011, 23:46:40 | Message # 1 |
Aun Va III
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Hi Guys ... New Q for u regarding Medic's from the MedTec unit, but also relates to inf as well ...
Q: Say they are hiding inside the (indestructible) container and can't be seen by any enemy units, but get hit with an artillery strike that's missed it's original target ... Do they suffer damage from the area of effect of the strike?
Any & all opinions/pointers appreciated! ... Walts
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| zellak | Date: Tuesday, 13-Sep-2011, 19:09:03 | Message # 2 |
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i would think they are safe inside the container...as the container can only be destroyed by sabotage.
I seen your post on the AT-43 forum, somebody said its possible to enter containers...this is news to me.
I cant find my rulebook. 
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DEMON : " When next we meet, i shall tear you limb from limb...there will be no escape. "
Hero: " You bring balloon animals and i'll hire a clown..... we can make it a regular party. "
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| Balrog | Date: Tuesday, 13-Sep-2011, 19:38:28 | Message # 3 |
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Aun Va III
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Hey Z ... Yeah, u can hide in a container ... AT-43 Rulebook - Page 97 ...
OPENING AND MOVING TERRAIN ELEMENTS
“What’s in there?” ... “Dunno, let’s open it...”
– Two anonymous Karmans just before their equally anonymous death.
Containers can be opened but not moved – a special carrier is required for that. On the other hand, the low
walls can be moved: certain combat striders and vehicles have the “Hoist” ability and can therefore lift them.
A unit that opens a container or lifts a low wall is considered as having been engaged – it can neither
move nor shoot anymore. For its next activation, the unit will not be considered engaged by the container
or the low wall. A unit can enter a container if the miniatures that make up the unit can stand inside it. ... Seeeeee, I read the rulebook, once in a while! But seriously, maybe an "Improved Cover" if inside (3+ save) if the doors open, else 100% cover/no damage if door closed? If door closed, can only help those inside? ... Seems OK? ... Walts
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| pavlov | Date: Wednesday, 14-Sep-2011, 19:29:41 | Message # 4 |
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Hi
Does this now allow us to take an indestructable "bunker" onto the table i.e. jump in at the right time miss the art/maeser strike/flamer jump out do bit of fighting, Its a bit like superman giving your squad a great big hug.
If the medics beat feet into the medtech they should have to pay a penalty of not being able to fix dead un's that round, combat medics are renowned for there bravery to the point of insanity on the field of battle and particularly during heavy combat with many of them paying with there lives.
Cmon Walter dont sully the good name of combat medics by hiding in the box  .
I'm going to get one for the next game and kick the medics out and park a load of Wendigos inside with the doors open/ closed and the spring the trap or could we have a rule change so that we could para drop them in
Alan
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There is f&*k all cool about 10+ civil engineers running around every battlefield
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| zellak | Date: Wednesday, 14-Sep-2011, 20:05:05 | Message # 5 |
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The med tech containers are paradropped in....beside the nurses at the end of their move. (its in the fluff/rules)
Its interesting that troops can hide in the containers, but what if an enemy AFV parks in front of the doors...they open outward !
Thats one unit going nowhere. 
Its more useful to work out tactics to kill the enemy.....than hide from him. (maybe thats just my Soviet Training coming to the fore.) Added (14-Sep-2011, 8:05 PM)
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Quote (Balrog) it can neither move nor shoot anymore. For its next activation, the unit will not be considered engaged by the container
or the low wall.
So opening or closing the door counts as being engaged for the activation.
turn 1 ; unit moves to door, opens door. engaged > end of activation.
turn 2 ; unit goes inside container, closes door. engaged . end of activation.
turn 3 : unit opens door and cannot take any further action > engaged. end of activation.
Still dont see any useful tactics for this process.....enlighten me. 
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DEMON : " When next we meet, i shall tear you limb from limb...there will be no escape. "
Hero: " You bring balloon animals and i'll hire a clown..... we can make it a regular party. "
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| Balrog | Date: Wednesday, 14-Sep-2011, 22:59:42 | Message # 6 |
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Aun Va III
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Hi Pav & Zel ... Couple of responses ... hope they help ... and soz, not in any order ...
Firstly & most importantly, as Z points out, it's too time consuming to open/hide/close the doors. There is no surprise attack ... "open & shoot" at passing enemy units because of the "engaged" status, unless u have TWO units waiting inside the "indestructable" container/hospital!  ... Tactics, luv'em! ... AT-43 is turning out to be great for them!!
If the door(s) are open, then u can shoot and be shot at along the blinkered/limited line of sight of the open container. What we should do is have an off-table grid for the containers to show any fighters positions, like the plan of the bunker.
If you kill the medics, or they flee the battlefield due to a morale fail or an enemy controls the container with more fighters, then the container, walls & medics are removed ... so it's not that good a unit. U need to commit another unit to protect it, who in-turn gain the benefit of lots of "medic" saves ... Tactics, luv'em! ... AT-43 is turning out to be great for them!! .... opp's, did I say that already!
The medical unit team can only help a unit it is in contact with ... 2.5cm ... whether inside or outside the container/hospital, so once again, not that brilliant.
The container (and any units in it!) can be destroyed by "sabotage" and I agree that if the doors are closed and a AFV or Strider parks itself at the door, then any units inside are trapped.
Lets not over-complicate things and keep using common sense comrades of the revolution!
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But, back to my original question! ... I think that if there is anyone inside the "indestructable" container, they should get an "Improved Cover" bonus (3+ save) like the bunkers if the door(s) open and 100% if the doors closed? ... Walts
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| Banksi | Date: Tuesday, 04-Oct-2011, 17:41:18 | Message # 7 |
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I find the in-house rule for medics on the sheet idiotic... they only have 3 medic figures so would immediately take a morale check this is just stupid!!!! The rules say the fill a type 2 unit space.. NOT that they are a type 2 unit!! They are listed as specialists.
The sensible idea is to go by the written rules... if the container is captured or destroyed they are removed.
The Medtec medics count towards the total when calculating control, it would be the sensible idea to always have another unit next to Medtec medic and container.
I don't know if anyone noticed but the container also brings back a figure from the dead once per round, this is on top of the saves the medic make. Also in the blurb it mentions people shooting at the container so I don't think it's indestructible either.
The in-house rule needs to be more fully explained
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Of course I know your name, it's your face I can't remember - Parahandy
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| pavlov | Date: Tuesday, 04-Oct-2011, 19:17:28 | Message # 8 |
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Welcome back
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There is f&*k all cool about 10+ civil engineers running around every battlefield
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| Balrog | Date: Tuesday, 04-Oct-2011, 19:58:46 | Message # 9 |
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Aun Va III
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Hey Banksi ... Soz, but our "inHouse Rules" for the MedTec are taken exactly from the Frostbite Campaign rules, I should have mentioned this. We had a discussion here a while ago ...
>>> http://www.northayrshirewargamesclub.co.uk/forum/7-94-5#1073
... as I fancied using them myself, and didn't like the Frostbite rules myself and the odd quirks of them, i.e. need to role for morale each round. But, after odd comments, "we" decided to leave the rules as Rackham wrote them. I just wanted them in our rules for everyone's attention as we had discussed them already.
Should we open this pandora's box again?! ... Walts
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| Banksi | Date: Tuesday, 04-Oct-2011, 21:57:30 | Message # 10 |
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Gets a pry bar and re-opens the box
Quoting Zellak -
Strictly speaking a MedTech unit is a 3 man type 2 infantry unit...so should test morale every turn.
But there are 3 man type 2 units in the Frostbite book, who dont test every turn. (heavy weapon teams)
As they are called support units , i would say MedTechs are also support units.......what else would they be ?
The Medtec medic are listed as specialists, just as heavy weapons teams are specialists too, so they do not follow the normal rule of 3, do you think that Rackham were so stupid when creating a new unit to make them so fragile that they couldn't be used from the first turn????? Can we have a little sense in our house rules when we write them please!
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Of course I know your name, it's your face I can't remember - Parahandy
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| Balrog | Date: Wednesday, 05-Oct-2011, 00:47:46 | Message # 11 |
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Aun Va III
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@Banksi: To be honest, the more I play the game, ask questions on the rules, the more I appreciate the subtleties of the Rackham rules for AT-43.
As with all rules, inHouse tweaks iron out the bugs we think are wrong, but when u ask more experienced players on AT-43 in other forums, you (or rather I) begin to understand that there's very little wrong with their rules.
So, regarding the MedTec unit ... Firstly, as AlanB says, their not soldiers or war veterans, which is key to the whole unit ...
Quote (pavlov) Hi ... There nurses in white uniforms not hairy a%$*d vets with more combat under there belt than you could shake a stick at that's why there type 2, suck it up spend those points or buy a civvy engineer. ... Alan
... so the idea that they need to check their morale all the time goes in line with AlanB's well put statment 
Secondly, if you fail a morale check, spend the 2 LP's to get them going ... simple!
Thirdly, allocate an extra fighter too them ... making them have 4 in the unit. Ether a hero, free civvy engineer or with some factions who gain an extra man per unit, pay the extra 25pts and you've now got 4 medic's!
And lastly ... Tactics, tactics & yet more tactic's ... protect them with a nearby inf unit, keep them under cover, behind or in their "hospital", attach them to a secure VP area which is surrounded by inf & strider support ... tactic's ... AT-43 has loads of them!
Now, even with all that I've said, I would be more than happy to change the rule to suit my Red Blok factions, but as there isn't really a major issue with the rule on MedTec, I agree with AlanB and that we should leave the MedTec unit as is, in all good conscience.
Of course, as a final punt, we could always go to the polls, but to be honest, I would vote for the rules to stay as they are, even though Red Blok would be one of the armys to benefit the most. ... Walts
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| Banksi | Date: Wednesday, 05-Oct-2011, 19:45:11 | Message # 12 |
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I've been re-reading the Medtec rules and this statement it struck me -
With an extra three medics and a field hospital that can revive any casualty
I think the Medtec unit has to be place with another unit, not placed as a separate entity. This would negate the morale requirements and make sense of the extra medic statement. I think the unit is placed next to a unit that is already on the table, hence the parachute in and placement rules.
Another point would be to make them support units and clear the issue up totally, I think this may be a point that Rackham missed.
I think going to the polls would be a good plan.
yes or no to Medtecs being a support unit.
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Of course I know your name, it's your face I can't remember - Parahandy
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| Che | Date: Wednesday, 05-Oct-2011, 20:13:12 | Message # 13 |
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Quote (Banksi) I think the Medtec unit has to be place with another unit
I think the medtech unit is a unit of its own because "its use is declared once per round during the activation of a friendly infantry unit in contact with the field hospital: one of the unit's fighters comes back into the game" and "The two nurses and the medic have the first aid ability. Once per round they can each save a member of their unit or a member of a unit in contact." I believe the medtech unit is stationary and other units go to it to gat the benefit. Maybe calling it a support unit would be the answer. No polls, the Red Blok rulers tell their people 'cos they know best .
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Wargamers like to paint their privates!!
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| Banksi | Date: Monday, 17-Oct-2011, 19:01:12 | Message # 14 |
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I see the house rules have not been amended to fix there error,
A some in this thread have stated it would be more sensible for the medics to be classed as "type 3" infantry but fill a "type 2" slot
Can we get an agreement and fix this ludicrous in-house rule please.
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Of course I know your name, it's your face I can't remember - Parahandy
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| Balrog | Date: Monday, 17-Oct-2011, 21:03:56 | Message # 15 |
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Aun Va III
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